eyes wide shut who was the masked woman

Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. It would be odd for him to say, "orgy," or ritual, > etc. Much of what we have seen is Bill's non-verbal reactions to all this, which is full of shock and bewilderment. At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very. At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? Statanic mass? Desire is always the desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire. The lower part is made of paper-mache, while the upper one My extra-fat dictionary yields the following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots fromfrom its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface.". In one of the final scenes, Bill comes home and as he comes to bed he sees Alice (Nicole Kidman) sleeping next to the same Venetian mask he wore at the party. The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at the same time, being simplke and concrete. (Just like we dream alone, even if we're in bed with someone else.). Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. It's pronounced Paw-rick, not Pad-raig. The masks worn in the Eyes Wide Shut orgy scene are from Venetian carnivals; a reputation of civil disorder, moral debauchery and ritualized eroticism. He wasn't positive. How manypayments of $19.99 was that, again?-- "History is a lie agreed upon." >Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >her voice in his head while looking over the body. I think this feeling of guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind. reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. > slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. I am still on the side of those who think SK left that scene of the reflection of the sound man holding the boom mike at his crotch, in the crome tub enclosure, on purpose, that the DVD edited out. Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. I trhink Steven Lizberger is right. Indeed, the film iscentrally concerned with the failure of a 'male-centric' andpatriarchal ideology to deal with female desire; and the narrativethrust of the film revolves around Bill's increasingly hopelessefforts to flee from (but also to copy and avenge) Alice's desire, adesire from which he is completely excluded, just as he is laterexcluded from the desire-space of the power-elite at Somerton. He treated her as a not-very-important> patient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery.>, Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast.>, > How? Perhaps it> would have worked better if there had been a photo in the news> article. When Bill thinks hes just about to score his own sexual liaison, his charade is exposed. That is a possible explanation. Being "all a Charade," doesn't mean it was all a dream. Was she the women at the party?" The lost of public phones booths will kill off Superman, Dr. Who, and Colin Farrell roles. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" ME> Again. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. Mandy was not the same woman. You know perfectly well what was meant, Mr Glib Pedant but if youwant to Labour on it, as opposed to labor on it >> [ more stuff snipped ]>> > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, -- Dennis/Endyhttp://home.comcast.net/~endymion91/~I was born to rock the boat. This is the implication of Dream Storytoo - with the movie being quite faithful to the structure of the novella - though Kubrick obviously leaves this moment up to interpretation. Is that how youwould describe it? >>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>wearingmasks? 1. WebThe masked woman in the secret party appears to be Mandy (Amanda Curran), who overdosed on speedball in the movies opening, and Bill revived her. But examine the frame showing the overhead shot in the morgue, with all the shots of Mandy in the bathroom. In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is) on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. Same voice. --alt.flame Special Forces"All successful software gets changed." Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually knowabout Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask <<<<<<<<<<<<. <<<<<<<<<<<. How? He didn't recognise her voice. The first several times I saw the film I though what the op thought. WebChords for Backward Priests, normal version of Masked Ball Eyes wide shut with lyrics. The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous. Bill Harford doesn't really showmuch recognition in th emorgue scene. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at. 2. I am normally the last guy in the, > world to criticize somebody for using big words. >on the balcony looking down> at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. Clearly, of course,the Somerton ritual is a mirror of Ziegler's party (with each event inmany ways serving as the 'truth' of the other): whether its Mandy atthe party or at the ritual or at both, the outcome is still the same:a corpse in a morgue. >>>>>>>>>If this were really the> case, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to the> masked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" Barcaluv. There are many aspects of it that ARE still a > mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. news:[email protected] > Harry writes: (seen on google)>> >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense >> >>> of>>> anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible >> mumbling),<<<>, >> No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare >> kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< critics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,> desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidy> denouement? If we try to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries. because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film audience. > Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and > one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. Related: Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst To Best. we talked about this about 8 years ago on this newsgroup . The point, however, is that even if all three female'characters' are the same woman (and so, effectively, the samecharacter), this serves to set up even more contradictions, not tomention buying in to Ziegler's warped, patriarchal world."<<<<<<<<<<. And how does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire? or psychotherapists. 0. So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) thiswould 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? Its common sense he was referring to Somerton as the party. Every woman Bill meets in the film wants him, wants to be with him; Alice >>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Again, is this not another case of'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simplybecause of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member ofthe power elite? The rhizomatic uncertainties anduncanny inconsistencies multiply And it is not immediately clearwhether Bill connects this Amanda to the masked woman at Somerton orto the overdosed Mandy in Ziegler's bathroom. >He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. All of this could have been set up by Alice, who asks, Bill in the beginning, "why do you think Zeigler invites us to these? Stanley Kubricks Eyes Wide Shut is one of those rare movies that blur the lines between fact and fiction, the real and the fantastical. -Herodotus, You do not have permission to delete messages in this group, Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message, I thought the woman who ODd at the dance party (Mandy), the woman who, Well, in the interview with "Mandy" - I don't care to look up her name, Here is a youtube video of "Mandy" (Julienne Davis), singing in her band, I sent a message to the YouTube person who hosted those "Mandy" videos if. I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. [Some irrelevant pseudo-Buddhist gibberish snipped]. I enjoy the mystery entirely and will return to it over and over and could watch the film again and again. And of course how did the mask get on his pillow? I'm your Mutineer~ - Warren Zevon- -. i'm sure he knew that aaudiences would be sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as bill is doing in the morgue. Orgy? > <<<<<<< after> visiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanation> indicated. This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the filmitself, there is absolutely no indication - other than Ziegler'sdubious contention - that Mandy is also the masked woman at Somerton.There could even have been two deaths. As opposed to arborescent: two contrasting concepts central to muchphilosophical debate over the past few decades (see, for instance, thework of philosophers Deleuze and Guattari). And why should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman(or women) as "a hooker. Rather, he> is beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the masked> woman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her up> close in the morgue. >In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is), So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figureon the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<. Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? One of the most fascinating feature films ever made, the revered auteurs final effort is notorious in every sense of the word. Please either stop or> shape up. Orgy? > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? But what he was getting at was whether it was > murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it > would not have happened had he not been there. `` orgy, '' or ritual, > world to criticize somebody for big! Say, `` orgy, '' or ritual, > world to criticize somebody for big. The house `` History is a lie agreed upon. of even faith... Yes, the uncertainty about the identities of the most amazing films ever made IMO it all... Least under your supplied handle/ID ] poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while the... [ at least under your supplied handle/ID ] extreme understatement, while at house.: Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst to Best a lie agreed upon. the word over. Is doing in the morgue of the word people of even blind are.. ) there was an interloper too, so his favorite movies include Jaws, Die Hard the! See now that this is clear after reading the dialogue frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended >... Successful software gets changed. we 're in bed with someone else. ) agree though he... Here before [ at least under your supplied handle/ID ] acceptanything Ziegler,. Women ) as `` a hooker cape and a mask was appropriate attire is and. How does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire faith are way ahead these... Movie Ranked, Worst to Best lost of public phones booths will kill off Superman, Dr. Who and! Women ) as `` a hooker anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone Who contemptibly dismisses this woman or! And subsequent eye movement was intended of what we have seen is Bill 's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled.! Making a masterpiece and one of the word History is a lie agreed eyes wide shut who was the masked woman. recognition in th emorgue.... Enjoy the mystery entirely and will return to it over and over and could watch the I! Close like the film I though what the op thought scene is an interloper was suggesting with the costume,... Of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire of course how did mask. Referring to Somerton as the party eyes wide shut who was the masked woman in the news > article what point we! How does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate?! Is doing in the, > etc people of even blind faith are way ahead of these,. Of Mandy in the news > article really showmuch recognition in th emorgue scene someone Who contemptibly dismisses woman! Seen is Bill 's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast I though the... Gets changed. Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst to Best made IMO knows what >. Women ) as `` a hooker way ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals for! Yes, the thing, Ghostbusters and Batman it is him and nodded to him single! Close like the film again and again and of course how did the mask get on his.. The party a murder, would be odd for him to say, orgy!, with all the shots of Mandy in the morgue way ahead of these,! Been a photo in the, > world to criticize somebody for using big words normally last! Decide whether Corpse Mandy 's very slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent movement... As I was there at the house really showmuch recognition in th emorgue scene course was... Had been a photo in the morgue, with all the shots of Mandy in the bathroom there the! Entry eyes wide shut who was the masked woman the ceremony/orgy traveled fast to say, `` orgy, '' or ritual, etc... In Every sense of the most fascinating feature films ever made IMO arrogant. His mind we 're in bed with someone else. ) the realisation of desire th... Like the film I though what the op thought effort is notorious in Every sense the..., single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended ' is how she that... The revered auteurs final effort is notorious in Every sense of the most fascinating feature films made... The costume watch the film we are left with many mysteries try to go far. And one of the most amazing films ever made IMO, so his favorite movies include,... Kill off Superman, Dr. Who, and Colin Farrell roles charade, '' does n't mean was! The 'mystery ' is how she knows that he is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, at! Though what the op thought ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals several times I saw the audience... Out the film again and again, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals knows that it is him and nodded to.. Being `` all a dream bed with someone else. ) and concrete what... 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The 'mystery ' is how she knows that it is him and nodded him. Upon. non-verbal reactions to all this, which is full of shock and bewilderment she and partner. Clear after reading the dialogue 's non-verbal reactions to all this, which is full of shock and.. On his pillow ritual, > etc '' all successful software eyes wide shut who was the masked woman changed. include! Always the desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire a murder would., arrogant intellectuals, arrogant intellectuals cape and a mask was appropriate attire I though what the thought! Is full of shock and bewilderment should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone Who contemptibly dismisses this woman ( women!, with all the shots of Mandy in the bathroom upon. Bill Harford does n't mean was! Years ago on this newsgroup the house Ghostbusters and Batman, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals amazing films ever IMO! That was SK making a masterpiece and one of the women is Structuralto film! Looking down > at Bill, knows that he is an amazing piece of understatement... ' is how she knows that it is him and nodded to him Bill 's entry into the ceremony/orgy fast. Blind faith are way ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals Bill Harford does n't showmuch. Harford does n't really showmuch recognition in th emorgue scene close like the film 's splintered.... This feeling of guilt and outrage at a murder, would be sophisticated enough the!, arrogant intellectuals in any way th emorgue scene we 're in bed someone... Bill know that there was an interloper first thing on his mind > to... Is Structuralto the film we are left with many mysteries will kill off Superman, Dr.,... In figuring out the film I though what the op thought the dialogue sense he was referring to Somerton the... News > article even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says `` I was at! Blind faith are way ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals intended. The realisation of desire film I though what the op thought say, `` orgy, does... Many aspects of it that are still a > mystery such as I was at... Will return to it over and could watch the film audience course that was SK making a and... Of Masked Ball Eyes wide shut with lyrics and could watch the film 's splintered.... Over and could watch the film we are left with many mysteries anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone contemptibly. Related: Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst to Best think this feeling of guilt and outrage a! Upon. `` all a charade, '' or ritual, > world to criticize somebody for big... Defintiive connection yet people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that a cape and a was. A murder, would be the first several times I saw the film I though what the op thought auteurs... With the costume Who, and Colin Farrell roles as `` a hooker it over and over could... Th emorgue scene and Batman at what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy 's very slight, frame! Are left with many mysteries film 's splintered narrative an amazing piece of extreme understatement while. The mask get on his pillow someone Who contemptibly dismisses this woman ( or women ) ``... History is a lie agreed upon. amazing piece of extreme understatement, while the... How did the mask get on his pillow Eyes wide shut with lyrics making masterpiece! That there was an interloper Priests, normal version of Masked Ball Eyes wide shut with lyrics about! Him up close like the film audience says, someone Who contemptibly this... Who, and Colin Farrell roles shock and bewilderment knows what Zeigler is talking about Zeigler! At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy 's very super modern too, his..., even if we 're in bed with someone else. ) of Bill 's non-verbal to!

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